Oil change ?

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Larry e rutt
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:52 pm
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Rutt
Location: Ephrata pa

Oil change ?

Post by Larry e rutt » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:38 pm

So put new oil in my T when I got it. I have driven it about 300 miles this summer and added 2 quarts through out the year , and my oil is dark with a brown color.. how many miles can you run till an oil change ? my question really is, do I need to change, or is dripping and adding enough to replenish ??

User avatar

Bill Robinson
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:24 pm
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Robinson
Location: Salty Bottom, AL
MTFCA Number: 22487
MTFCI Number: 17887
Board Member Since: 1999
Contact:

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Bill Robinson » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:30 pm

It's time now.


Scott_Conger
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:50 pm

Agreed
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!

User avatar

D.Yoder
Posts: 263
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:50 pm
First Name: DEAN
Last Name: YODER
Location: Iowa
MTFCA Number: 295
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 127
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Oil change ?

Post by D.Yoder » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:16 pm

I change oil each spring. Just keep adding through the year :) :)

User avatar

HalSched
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:13 pm
First Name: Hal
Last Name: Schedler
Location: Sacramento
MTFCA Number: 16688
MTFCI Number: 19356
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Oil change ?

Post by HalSched » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:40 pm

Weak battery + hi amp starter= no juice for coils. Try cranking on BAT

Make sure the coils buzz... in the correct order... left lever up

Carb adj to 1 to 1/4. Gas in tank. :)


Jerry VanOoteghem
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm
First Name: Jerry
Last Name: VanOoteghem
Location: S.E. Michigan

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:17 pm

D.Yoder wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:16 pm
I change oil each spring. Just keep adding through the year :) :)
Me too. Except I don't drive anywhere NEAR the miles Dean does!

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 2131
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:52 pm

Spring and fall oil changes. Summer weight and Winter weight.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup


Topic author
Larry e rutt
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:52 pm
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Rutt
Location: Ephrata pa

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Larry e rutt » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:28 pm

Ok... thanks. I think I'm going to drain the oil and slosh some kerosene around in there see if I can clean my motor out. Maybe the oil won't get dirty so fast..


Scott_Conger
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:50 pm

A far better plan would be to pull the bottom pan and go in and wipe everything down with shop rags. You will not believe the corruption that is laying on every horizontal surface. If your motor is an as-is motor, it undoubtedly has sharp carbon crusty material everywhere. I always clean out a T engine when I buy it or service one and this, I have found, is one of the best ways to ensure subsequent oil remains much MUCH cleaner. Kerosene will not do this for you.

Additionally, the kerosene "trick" dates back to the days when oils were crummy and the car/ engine was only a few years old. Some of these engines have run for many years, sat for many more and then run for still more years. That's a lot of crud which no slosh will remedy.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


Topic author
Larry e rutt
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:52 pm
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Rutt
Location: Ephrata pa

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Larry e rutt » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:59 pm

Ok.. thanks...that makes sense.. that may have to wait for a winter project..but i would love to check out the inside..


Scott_Conger
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:08 pm

One more bit of advice: loosen pan and allow to tilt/hang from rearmost cap screw...drain for a day. Remove. Allow everything else to drip for a day.

THEN put on your least favorite shirt, go under, and start wiping. Be sure to take out the horseshoes and check all threads for good condition (the area under and behind these retainers will be among the filthiest areas you attack).

And of course...have FUN!
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!

User avatar

George House
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:25 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: House
Location: Northern Caldwell County TX
MTFCA Number: 115
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Oil change ?

Post by George House » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:29 pm

Wow! That’s a terrifically involved oil change Scott! I’ll bet the local oil change monkeys wouldn’t go for that. About the only extra effort I expend beyond taking out the 15/16” drain plug is jack up the front axle as far as my floor jack extends. Let it drip for a few hours. Royce learned me that several years ago...
One of the biggest problems with today’s youth is they’ve never known the fear of hearing leather being rapidly pulled through seven Wrangler belt loops.


Jerry VanOoteghem
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm
First Name: Jerry
Last Name: VanOoteghem
Location: S.E. Michigan

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:01 pm

Lots of well meaning overthinking here. First, by your description of the oil, "brown color," it's not even dirty yet, which makes sense at 300 miles. It's dirty when it's black. Second, you don't need to do anything other than just remove the drain plug, let it drain and drip for a while, replace the plug and put new oil in. Then, drive for a distance of your choosing, (I change at about 1000 miles), & repeat.

(True, that if the car is new to you, it's not a bad idea to have a "look see" inside the motor. Not just for cleanliness, but also any other potential gotchas in the future.)

Have fun!


Erik Johnson
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:25 pm
First Name: Erik
Last Name: Johnson
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Erik Johnson » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:13 pm

After an oil change, the oil in a Model T will quickly get dirty. I would go 1,000 miles before changing.

More importantly, I would figure out why you needed to add two quarts in only 300 miles. That's an awful lot of leaking and/or burning of oil.

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 2131
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:07 pm

I too jack the front up and let it drain. While it is up I pour in anywhere from 1/2 to full qt fresh oil thru the oil filler spout and allow to flush the dippers trays. Does it help I don't know but makes me feel good. :lol:
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup


Scott_Conger
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:45 pm

George

what I described is not an oil change. For old engines, it is a one-time cleaning of the crank case which will keep fresh oil from turning black again in 10 miles.

And it was suggested as an alternative to flushing with kerosene.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 2495
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:12 pm

Kerosene will not do this for you.

It's also ungodly expensive. :D
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Professor Fate
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:39 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: S.
Location: S.Deerfield MA
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Professor Fate » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:49 pm

I run 10-30 and a quart of 30HD. the HD oil cleans well.
it gets dark quickly but seems to keep things reasonably clean. 500 miles, or when it gets real dark, or twice a year... whichever comes 1rst.....just sayin'...

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 2495
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:57 pm

FWIW
From the Ford owner's manual: It is advisable to clean out the crank case by draining off the dirty oil when the new car has been driven three hundred and fifty miles; thereafter it will only be necessary to repeat this operation every seven hundred and fifty miles.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Allan
Posts: 1249
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Allan » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:57 am

With an unknown car, I would closely follow Scott's proceedure. When I got Henrietta running, part of the recommissioning was an oil drain. The original stuff was like treacle. With fresh oil in, I ran her for 1/2 hour before draining the 'new' oil. You would not believe how filthy it was.
A month or two later, when I had to replace number one rod, the oil was dropped again, and was just as filthy. With the inspection pan off for the rod change, it was not difficult to find the source of the problem. The gap between the horse shoes and the pan sides was completely filled. Much of this was granular carbon like that found under piston crowns. With the horse shoes out the whole ugly mess was cleaned up, and I took the opportunity to wash down the insides of the pan as well.
Now I have resorted to checking the oil level, and will leave the present fill in place until we have done the September national tour.
FWIW,
Allan from down under.


Loftfield
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:26 pm
First Name: Thomas
Last Name: Loftfield
Location: Brevard, NC, USA
MTFCA Number: 49876
MTFCI Number: 24725

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Loftfield » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:42 am

Oil is cheap! The standard Model T has no oil pump and no filter other than an aftermarket sieve under the transmission inspection plate. Change oil often. I wouldn't hesitate to change after 300 miles, and certainly wouldn't go more than 500. My theory is to get any metal filings and band threads out BEFORE they cause trouble.I am only a caretaker for my antiques. Mine are all older than I am, and I intend them to outlive me to be passed on to the next caretaker, so I err on the side of caution and conservation.

Two quarts in 300 miles is WAY too much oil to have to add. You have either a serious leak, or the rings need a serious cleaning or major overhaul, or some combination of both. A leak will be obvious from the puddle on the floor, bad rings can be easily detected by the cloud of blue smoke billowing from the exhaust. Rings stuck from age or gunk can sometimes be cleaned and freed by adding ring cleaner directly into the spark plug holes, let it sit overnight. Marvel Mystery Oil, the source of much mirth and discussion on this forum, has never done anything bad to my engines, and may actually do a bit of good, I don't know, it did free up some stuck rings after sitting full strength in the cylinders overnight. We all hope your problems are simple fixes and not a major engine overhaul.


Topic author
Larry e rutt
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:52 pm
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Rutt
Location: Ephrata pa

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Larry e rutt » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:36 pm

My motor doesn't smoke at all... leaks a bit but not major..I dont know how many miles I drove I threw 300 out there but if I drove 15 times at 40 mile I guess that would be 6 hundred... I've been around vehicles and equipment i know would black dirty oil looks like.. my dad drove his 83 Chevy 6.2 liter diesel 30,000 between changes, and he got 280,000 before rebuilt.. but I never saw any oil get brown... ugh.. thanks for all the advice... I agree oil and grease are cheap, compared to the alternative...

User avatar

Bill Robinson
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:24 pm
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Robinson
Location: Salty Bottom, AL
MTFCA Number: 22487
MTFCI Number: 17887
Board Member Since: 1999
Contact:

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Bill Robinson » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:31 pm

If this "brown" is not a translucent brown (NEW oil is a translucent brown, to my eyes, anyway) but instead the brown is a dirty, milky looking brown, then I would suspect water getting into the oil. Blown head gasket, cracked block, etc.


FordFool
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:49 pm
First Name: Don
Last Name: Kirtley
Location: Devore,Ca
MTFCA Number: 23703
MTFCI Number: 23153
Board Member Since: 2009

Re: Oil change ?

Post by FordFool » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:33 pm

I don’t know about the rest of the guys out there but when I see brown oil I think of water??? Don


Scott_Conger
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:57 pm

There are no oil control rings in a T, and 2 quarts in 300 miles is not necessarily excessive, particularly if the T exhibits normal leaks. My dad's T used just under a quart of oil in a day's drive when on tour right after overhaul by reputable builder. 6,000 miles later, it still consumes or loses the same amount at the same rate. My old worn out '19 with cast iron pistons and clonking wrist-pins does almost exactly the same. Neither car smokes.

Brown oil is slightly dirty. Grey oil has water in it. Tan foamy oil at the breather/filler on a very cold day soon after start up is localized condensation in crankcase mixing with oil vapor and nothing to worry about so long as it eventually goes away with the engine warmed up.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 2131
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Oil change ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:44 pm

RE; " Tan foamy oil at the breather/filler on a very cold day soon after start up is localized condensation in crankcase mixing with oil vapor and nothing to worry about so long as it eventually goes away with the engine warmed up."
Some engines seem more prone to that ^, mine is one of them. I have spent a lot of time chasing that down to find out it was not a leak just my engine and where it is stored.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup

User avatar

JP_noonan
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:44 am
First Name: John
Last Name: Noonan
Location: Norton,Ma.

Re: Oil change ?

Post by JP_noonan » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:51 pm

Add me to the list of those here who think losing half your engine/trans total capacity in only 300 miles is excessive. :shock: Mine had some minor leaks at the usual places before i had it apart last time. when i put it back together i took some extra time to reduce the leaks, and now all i get is a little seep from the pan mount rivets. I check it often during the driving season which for me is only about a1000 miles a year, and i bet i only added less than a quart. Larry, have you checked to see if you're losing oil down the torque tube and into the rear diff?
Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.

User avatar

kmatt
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:30 pm
First Name: Kevin
Last Name: Matthiesen
Location: Madera California
MTFCA Number: 11598

Re: Oil change ?

Post by kmatt » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:20 am

Larry: If your transmission doesn't have the plug in the tail shaft, as John has said, you may be loosing engine oil down the driveshaft tube. Check the rear axle oil level and if there is engine oil mixed with the heaver rear axle oil. By the way do you know anything about any work that has been done on you T's rear axle like bronze thrust washers ?


26troadster
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:30 pm
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Lloid
Location: North GA
Board Member Since: 2014

Re: Oil change ?

Post by 26troadster » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:43 pm

I change them all in the fall and the spring. I use super tech (Walmart) oil year around. I know thats a hot topic but as long as its clean oil. IMO

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic